From age 5 to 22, I was in Memphis. I was
there again from age 30 to 32.
At ballpark 8 ounces of pork BBQ a month,
that would be
(1/2) * 12 * 20 = 120
pounds of pork BBQ consumed.
Dad often took me to the annual
Winchester-Western gun show with
fantastic shooting by Herb Parsons. Also
featured was pork BBQ -- paper plates
piled high with it, with coleslaw, potato
salad, and some bread -- cooked overnight
on racks over a temporary dug pit maybe 2
feet deep, 4 feet wide, and 50 yards long
with smoldering wood, likely hickory.
With the BBQ contest Memphis in May,
Memphis has some claims to significant,
competitive pork BBQ expertise.
The Nathan Myhrvold winning efforts at
Memphis in May contribute to the level of
expertise.
Now I'm in East Tennessee, another area
for serious pork BBQ.
And I've cooked my own versions of pork
BBQ off and on for over 20 years.
=== Theory
From various readings, there is a theory
of "low and slow" meat cooking including
BBQ:
Part of the theory is that the meat fibers
themselves are always tender. When meat
is tough, the cause is collagen. So, to
make tough meat tender, melt the collagen,
and can do that at 165 F, a temperature
that is also commonly regarded as high
enough for food safety.
If get the meat fibers much above, say,
180 F for too long, then the fibers will
shrink, expel their water, and become dry
and brittle, that is, not succulent.
Generally, 212 F for very long is too
darned hot. In practice often can get by
with cooking meat at 212 F, that is,
boiling it, if (A) the meat is quite
tender and (B) don't have the meat at 212
F for very long.
So, my best guess is that BBQ is from
cooking "low and slow", and the "low" is
about 165-170 F, and the "slow" is several
hours, until the meat is still juicy and
quite tender, i.e., succulent.
=== Most Recent Trial
This HN OP is timely: On
Saturday, April 3rd, 2021
I bought a fresh "boneless pork butt" of
8.9 pounds, $21.72. That piece is also
called Boston Butt. It is the shoulder of
the hog.
I have a rack of stainless steel wires
that can be adjusted to the shape of a V
and a rectangular covered granite
toasting pan
19.5 x 12.88 x 7"
=== Cooking
So, I put the pork on the V rack in the
bottom of the roaster, inserted a meat
thermometer into the pork, put on the top
of the roaster, and placed the whole
assembly into a pre-heated 225 F oven.
At 2.5 hours later the meat thermometer
read 165 F. Then I reduced the oven
temperature to 170 F and cooked for
another 8 hours.
Then it appeared that the meat was quite
tender and the fat, collagen, and water
were in the bottom of the roasting pan.
=== Chopping
East Tennessee pork shoulder BBQ is
pulled pork as mentioned in the OP.
Here the fibers of the pork are separated
via pulling with, say, two forks.
In West Tennessee, e.g., Memphis when I
was there, the pork is coarsely chopped.
So, with a cooking fork and a cooking
spoon, I moved the chunks of the pork one
at a time to my cutting board and used a
French chef's knife with a 12" long blade
to coarsely chop the pork and used a
spatula to shovel it into two covered
plastic containers, each with 2 quarts of
volume.
=== Yield
The weight of the final BBQ was
2,205 grams
and the volume, loosely packed, was about
4 quarts.
The raw weight of the pork was
8.09 * 16 * 28.3495 = 3,670 grams
so that the yield was
100 * 2,205 / 3,670 = 60.1%
which is surprisingly high.
The bottom of the roasting pan had about
1.5 quarts of liquid with about 5 fluid
ounces of fat. Chilled, the fat did not
become solid, and the liquid did not gel.
=== Cost per Serving
A generous serving of the BBQ is 8
ounces or
8 * 28.3495 = 227 grams
so that the total cooked weight of
2,205 grams
has
2,205 / 227 = 9.7
servings for
21.72 / 9.7 = $2.24
per serving.
=== Serving
In the cooking I added no salt, pepper,
BBQ rubs, or other seasonings.
For serving, I warm in a microwave oven
and add some bottle BBQ sauce and some
bottled hot sauce.
=== Changes
(1) The boneless pork butt -- from the
cutting to remove the bone -- had the meat
falling apart in several pieces. In the
future, I will buy only the bone-in
version and cook it with the bone in.
(2) The 8 hours at 170 F may be too long
-- shorter cooking might yield meat that
is just as tender but more succulent,
i.e., more moist.
(3) Generally I prefer to do pork BBQ
cooking with a picnic pork shoulder.
That cut is really from a front arm, has
the elbow joint inside, and is usually
sold with some of the skin still attached.
With this cut, the meat may remain more
moist as it melts out its collagen.
=== Extras
I have plans to do beef stew starting, NOT
with relatively tender and expensive beef
chuck roast but, with, say, beef bottom
round roast. And I hope to save money by
stepping down from USDA Prime and Choice
to USDA Select or Cutters and Canners.
Retired dairy cows might be a good
source, and once I called around to some
packing houses and asked what happens to
such cows. The short answer was "think
fast food". The offer was to buy boxes of
50 pounds at a time! Maybe someday I will
and have beef stew for family and friends
for months!
A. Escoffier has a remark that the beef
from older animals has better flavor. So,
US fast food is getting the beef with the
better flavor!
So, right, I intend to cook the beef at
165-170 F and NEVER let the stewing liquid
boil (as long as the beef is in that
liquid -- boiling later to reduce the
volume to concentrate and strengthen
flavors, sure).
Put the pot of stew in an oven at 350 F,
or 225 F? Let the meat "simmer"? NOT a
chance! Instead, 165-170 F and NO MORE.
Pork BBQ is often served with coleslaw.
My recipe is to shred a head of green
cabbage and then soak the result to
desired wetness with just bottled Ranch
salad dressing.
Cooking meat in a pot of 212F water is boiling it, because water is an excellent conductor of heat. Cooking meat in a 212F grill is barely cooking at all, because air is not. 225-240F is the "low" end of "low and slow" in a smoker setup.
Yes. In the trial I described, I used a 225 F oven for about 2 1/2 hours to get the meat internal temperature to 165 F. Then I lowered the oven temperature to 170 F and, wonder of wonders, 8 hours later the internal temperature of the meat was, right, 170 F.
I did all that in a covered roasting pan in an oven.
But even on a grill, if have the internal temperature at 165-170 F, an air temperature on a grill of 170 F will, bingo, keep the meat internal temperature at 165-170 F.
At the point where you're slowly drying your protein out at 165, you might instead consider just putting it in a circulator and then finishing it in smoke.
I cook the pork to 165 F for food safety and to melt the collagen, and both of those are necessary and need the heat. The intention is not to dry the proteins: Generally as soon as the collagen is melted, the pork is done and plenty moist -- succulent.
Never heard of a "circulator".
I have no smoker or cooking source that generates smoke from wood products.
I have no interest in entering BBQ competitions -- Myhrvold already did that and wrote lots of documentation on what he did in cooking.
My main goal in cooking is just food good on some balance of nutrition, flavor, preparation time, and cost. In that, for my time, etc., a pork shoulder on a rack in a covered granite roaster in a good electric oven in a good kitchen stove is a good option.
Sure, elements of flavor include salt, pepper, vinegar, lemon juice, smoke, caramelization, Maillard browning, umami, often carried by fats, etc.
But to simplify things to save me time, my working hypothesis is that, if in the end I want good flavors from smoke, sugar, lemon, vinegar, apple juice, tomato, brown sugar, molasses, capsaicin, etc., then I will add those just before eating. For Malliard browning, sugar caramelization, the coveted burned crisps, those are only for the external surface and, thus, just a small part of the total volume which to me means that, due to the time and effort required to get them, I can do without them.
If I want something better than the BBQ I've been getting, then I will turn to other directions from America, France, Italy, Austria, etc.
E.g., one path to a good sauce is some good beef stock (or just a can of Campbell's Beef Consomme), heavy cream, Dijon mustard, Worcestershire sauce, salt, and pepper, with some Mailliard browning from deglazing a pan fried steak with the beef stock.
Astounding things can be done with good Kirschwasser, heavy cream, cherries, and chocolate!
American cherry pie with a lard crust is tough to beat. Similarly for apple.
My family recipe for Thanksgiving turkey with stuffing in the turkey is terrific: The recipe was intended to make lean, wild turkeys moist; on current grocery store domesticated turkeys the recipe is magnificent overkill!
I like BBQ pork, but the notes I gave here are about a far as I care to go with the subject.
Are you on amphetamines, or do you just have so much time and inclination to sit down and write all you do? Frankly, I am in awe at the quality of your posts.
Teach me your ways. Please. What tricks to living a good, dignified, and alive life have you found?
What do you do to stave away the soul-killingness of the world? How do you keep your morale up so high?
Dear god, man where do you get the mental energy? Are you akin to Kant's 40 cups of coffee a day eccentricity?
Not everyone likes my writing at HN, Disqus, or anywhere else. I have no interest in getting paid for writing, and that is good because my audience would be tiny.
For your other questions, early on I looked for sources of information I could count on and settled on math, physics, and parts of the rest of science. From that I guessed that in principle things have rational explanations; later I concluded that in much of life finding such explanations is too difficult. In particular, if get very far away from math and mathematical physics, then rational explanations get difficult to find.
But difficult to find does not mean the explanations don't exist. So, knowing that there is a rational explanation, even if can't find it, can help filter out some really sick explanations as look for an effective, even if expedient, response.
So, for another source of security, I settled on some of the common US business explanations of the role money: In practice in life in the US, if can make some money, then many other issues of security and rationality become less crucial. How to make money? There are lots of lessons here on HN.
For a "dignified" life, I concluded that somehow there is a lot of junk out there, in two words, pop culture. So, I try to avoid it. We can avoid pop culture -- there is a lot of just terrific stuff out there, back to Newton, Bach, etc.
A lot of really terrific, historic stuff has happened in just the last few decades:
So, one day I heard about quasars -- the explanations sound about right and are astounding. It appears that the super massive black holes needed for quasars formed quite early, earlier than we can explain so far.
Similarly for the 3 K background radiation -- wild stuff that we can see that far back.
Then there was Guth's inflation -- more amazing stuff.
Kolmogorov's foundation of probability and the resulting theorems -- astounding.
Atomic clocks that can detect the effect of general relativity from moving a clock from the floor to a tabletop -- more amazing.
Then we got DNA as the source of genetics -- how come we were so lucky to uncover that? Then how amazing it is -- essentially all of life on earth is from just DNA; there are no alternatives. Amazing.
Then we got the Polymerase Chain Reaction (PCR) -- again, how could we be so lucky?
Then we got the Human Genome Project that from some clever cutting into pieces and the PCR mapped the whole human genome. And now we can do that quickly and routinely.
So, when Covid was sequenced, one pharma firm had a vaccine three days later -- we've risen several levels above the apes.
Gravitational waves? You must be kidding. Or, were until we detected them from colliding neutron stars, black holes, etc. And what could be done with an array of space based gravitational wave detectors is mind bending -- as in how could any such thing be true?
Then along came digital computing. Each new machine looked like a step up in technology. A decade or so of such steps looked like a step up in civilization, The Ascent of Man(kind), etc. For $100 I bought an AMD FX-8350 processor, 64 bit addressing, 4.0 GHz standard clock speed, 8 cores, and about 35 times faster than all six of the IBM mainframes we had for general purpose use at IBM's Watson lab.
Digital communications was at about 110 characters a second, but at that time some Bell Labs people were developing tiny solid state lasers -- amazing little chips. Now we can bring 1 Gbps data rates to individual desktops.
Computing and communications may be the new steel and steam or better.
We have a dichotomy: (1) With what we know about the standard model of physics, astronomy, and cosmology, it all looks very rational and solid, from a lab on earth to some electron finding a proton 13 billion years ago and 13 billion light years away. (2) When we get past the standard model of physics and the associated mathematical physics to human life and civilization, rationality is tough to find. The standard model of physics is a case of exquisite perfection; human life and civilization are fraught with irrationality, little in science, frustrations, massive disasters, and riddled with imperfections. An incongruous juxtaposition.
But, we are at a special time -- where we can understand the physical universe via the standard model from the present back 13.8 billion years, back nearly to the beginning. Amazing.
Agreed except for chopping. Shudder. Pulled pork done right is phenomenal. We used to scrape it off the pig while it was still on the spit. Then the cook would run us off...
No need to "shudder": Chopped West Tennessee pork is cooked essentially the same as pulled East Tennessee pork. The East Tennessee version may be cooked a little longer, but the West Tennessee version is close to being able to be pulled. Since I grew up with the West Tennessee version, I prefer biting into juicy chunks instead of stringy shreds! But I have a date for lunch on April 28th at a local East Tennessee BBQ joint that does pulled pork and am looking forward to it. For dinner this evening, I intend to have some of my chopped pork from my last trial!
I'd say that if you like East Tennessee pulled, you will also like West Tennessee chopped at least nearly as much -- there really isn't a lot of difference.
The "shudder" was mostly a silly joke. I've had both and of course they are both great tasting. I do prefer the texture of the pulled pork. I think it takes sauce better. Speaking of which, the BBQ sauces [0] are what really bring out regional bias that sometimes borders on a religious fervor.
For me, its that thinner tangy vinegar based Carolina style for pulled pork. For brisket, I prefer the Memphis style sauce. I will say I have recently had some of the Alabama white sauce on chicken and found it more compelling than I would have expected. Not my favorite, but sort of interesting. My goto though is still Carolina style.
By the way, the first time I had pulled pork was southwest of Jackson near the border, so it is not just in the east.
=== Qualifications
From age 5 to 22, I was in Memphis. I was there again from age 30 to 32.
At ballpark 8 ounces of pork BBQ a month, that would be
(1/2) * 12 * 20 = 120
pounds of pork BBQ consumed.
Dad often took me to the annual Winchester-Western gun show with fantastic shooting by Herb Parsons. Also featured was pork BBQ -- paper plates piled high with it, with coleslaw, potato salad, and some bread -- cooked overnight on racks over a temporary dug pit maybe 2 feet deep, 4 feet wide, and 50 yards long with smoldering wood, likely hickory.
With the BBQ contest Memphis in May, Memphis has some claims to significant, competitive pork BBQ expertise.
The Nathan Myhrvold winning efforts at Memphis in May contribute to the level of expertise.
Now I'm in East Tennessee, another area for serious pork BBQ.
And I've cooked my own versions of pork BBQ off and on for over 20 years.
=== Theory
From various readings, there is a theory of "low and slow" meat cooking including BBQ:
Part of the theory is that the meat fibers themselves are always tender. When meat is tough, the cause is collagen. So, to make tough meat tender, melt the collagen, and can do that at 165 F, a temperature that is also commonly regarded as high enough for food safety.
If get the meat fibers much above, say, 180 F for too long, then the fibers will shrink, expel their water, and become dry and brittle, that is, not succulent.
Generally, 212 F for very long is too darned hot. In practice often can get by with cooking meat at 212 F, that is, boiling it, if (A) the meat is quite tender and (B) don't have the meat at 212 F for very long.
So, my best guess is that BBQ is from cooking "low and slow", and the "low" is about 165-170 F, and the "slow" is several hours, until the meat is still juicy and quite tender, i.e., succulent.
=== Most Recent Trial
This HN OP is timely: On
Saturday, April 3rd, 2021
I bought a fresh "boneless pork butt" of 8.9 pounds, $21.72. That piece is also called Boston Butt. It is the shoulder of the hog.
I have a rack of stainless steel wires that can be adjusted to the shape of a V and a rectangular covered granite toasting pan
19.5 x 12.88 x 7"
=== Cooking
So, I put the pork on the V rack in the bottom of the roaster, inserted a meat thermometer into the pork, put on the top of the roaster, and placed the whole assembly into a pre-heated 225 F oven.
At 2.5 hours later the meat thermometer read 165 F. Then I reduced the oven temperature to 170 F and cooked for another 8 hours.
Then it appeared that the meat was quite tender and the fat, collagen, and water were in the bottom of the roasting pan.
=== Chopping
East Tennessee pork shoulder BBQ is pulled pork as mentioned in the OP. Here the fibers of the pork are separated via pulling with, say, two forks.
In West Tennessee, e.g., Memphis when I was there, the pork is coarsely chopped.
So, with a cooking fork and a cooking spoon, I moved the chunks of the pork one at a time to my cutting board and used a French chef's knife with a 12" long blade to coarsely chop the pork and used a spatula to shovel it into two covered plastic containers, each with 2 quarts of volume.
=== Yield
The weight of the final BBQ was
2,205 grams
and the volume, loosely packed, was about 4 quarts.
The raw weight of the pork was
8.09 * 16 * 28.3495 = 3,670 grams
so that the yield was
100 * 2,205 / 3,670 = 60.1%
which is surprisingly high.
The bottom of the roasting pan had about 1.5 quarts of liquid with about 5 fluid ounces of fat. Chilled, the fat did not become solid, and the liquid did not gel.
=== Cost per Serving
A generous serving of the BBQ is 8 ounces or
8 * 28.3495 = 227 grams
so that the total cooked weight of
2,205 grams
has
2,205 / 227 = 9.7
servings for
21.72 / 9.7 = $2.24
per serving.
=== Serving
In the cooking I added no salt, pepper, BBQ rubs, or other seasonings.
For serving, I warm in a microwave oven and add some bottle BBQ sauce and some bottled hot sauce.
=== Changes
(1) The boneless pork butt -- from the cutting to remove the bone -- had the meat falling apart in several pieces. In the future, I will buy only the bone-in version and cook it with the bone in.
(2) The 8 hours at 170 F may be too long -- shorter cooking might yield meat that is just as tender but more succulent, i.e., more moist.
(3) Generally I prefer to do pork BBQ cooking with a picnic pork shoulder. That cut is really from a front arm, has the elbow joint inside, and is usually sold with some of the skin still attached. With this cut, the meat may remain more moist as it melts out its collagen.
=== Extras
I have plans to do beef stew starting, NOT with relatively tender and expensive beef chuck roast but, with, say, beef bottom round roast. And I hope to save money by stepping down from USDA Prime and Choice to USDA Select or Cutters and Canners.
Retired dairy cows might be a good source, and once I called around to some packing houses and asked what happens to such cows. The short answer was "think fast food". The offer was to buy boxes of 50 pounds at a time! Maybe someday I will and have beef stew for family and friends for months!
A. Escoffier has a remark that the beef from older animals has better flavor. So, US fast food is getting the beef with the better flavor!
So, right, I intend to cook the beef at 165-170 F and NEVER let the stewing liquid boil (as long as the beef is in that liquid -- boiling later to reduce the volume to concentrate and strengthen flavors, sure).
Put the pot of stew in an oven at 350 F, or 225 F? Let the meat "simmer"? NOT a chance! Instead, 165-170 F and NO MORE.
Pork BBQ is often served with coleslaw. My recipe is to shred a head of green cabbage and then soak the result to desired wetness with just bottled Ranch salad dressing.