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My understanding is that it has happened. The oil market was tied to the USD. The BRICS have now implemented a payment system as robust as SWIFT system. Oil is now being paid for using that system.




> Oil is now being paid for using that system

The petrodollar hypothesis has been a myth since the 1990s. With America a net oil exporter, it’s an entirely stupid model to keep running.


I wish you would elaborate how being a net exporter relates to it being a myth. I don't see the connection. My point is that global trade of which oil is a major component needs to settle the books nightly. If the books aren't reconciled in an efficient manner trade has to slow down.

> how being a net exporter relates to it being a myth. I don't see the connection

Petrodollar a U.S. policy comes from the 1970s, when the U.S. guaranteed the House of Saud’s security in exchange for them selling their oil in dollars. The reason wasn’t to do some currency scheme, but to ensure the U.S. could always buy Saudi oil in a currency we controlled. Saudi Arabia then invested its profits in Treasuries, which closed the loop on Wall Street [1].

When America imported oil, keeping oil exporters close was strategically vital. Petrodollar recycling helped with that. Now that we don’t, it doesn’t.

> global trade of which oil is a major component

Like 4% [2][3].

[1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Petrodollar_recycling

[2] https://oilprice.com/Energy/Crude-Oil/Oil-Dominates-the-5-Tr... ~$1.5tn in 2021

[3] https://unctad.org/publication/global-trade-update-december-... 35tn in 2025


I see that as a side show to the overall banking system. I trying to express that this was a reactionary response to an immediate problem rather than a key part of banking.

> see that as a side show to the overall banking system

See what? The geopolitics? The petrodollar was entirely a geopolitical affair. If anything, one could argue petrodollar recycling—together with the fall of the USSR-created the modern American banking system. (The timeline is compelling for e.g. LBO debt.)


The reaction to 70's era oil embargo as opposed to the overall global monetary system. The oil embargo was a use of the monetary system not an intrinsic part of it's development.

> oil embargo was a use of the monetary system not an intrinsic part of it's development

Oil embargo was about embargoing oil. It wasn’t monetary. It was about denying essential commodities.


Yes, we reacted with a financial tool. Everyone uses the influence they have.

> we reacted with a financial tool

Oil embargo was about America not having oil. We didn’t react with a financial tool to that, but with security guarantees via our military. Putting the financial piece first reverses causation on the order of a decade.


I don't think so I think the US had many levers one might have been security guarantees. To try to separate the US influence into specific categories is the same as trying to dissect a joke or a frog.

https://quoteinvestigator.com/2014/10/14/frog/


By forcing oil to be bought with dollars, the USD was pegged to oil demand, especially from developing nations whose consumption was growing.

Also SWIFT being a means of control of movement of funds.


> forcing oil to be bought with dollars, the USD was pegged to oil demand, especially from developing nations whose consumption was growing

If you give me one source, I'll break down why this is wrong.

(In case there isn't one, the U.S. dollar was never pegged to oil demand [whatever that means]. And nothing about petrodollar recycling thought about developing nations for one second.)


Hasn’t all recent oil purchases been settled using USD. My understanding is that most countries buy US treasuries to maintain US credit ratings and to settle global trade debts.

> Hasn’t all recent oil purchases been settled using USD

No. I’ve traded and settled oil in British pounds from a desk at a bank in New York.

> most countries buy US treasuries to maintain US credit ratings and to settle global trade debts

No to the first, partly to the second. Holding Treasuries doesn’t affect creditworthiness. That said, Treasuries are a universal collateral, so some lenders may require Treasuries be held in reserve for their safety (usually in a third-country bank).

The main reason countries buy Treasuries is for reserves. These are maintained so they can defend their currency. They need dollars to do this if their country trades in and/or finances with dollars. (If they trade in or finance with yuan, they should hold yuan bonds, which they can quickly turn into yuan to sell into the market to buy back their currency, thereby stabilizing it.)


Panics about how oil is being traded in non-USD terms are as old as the internet and, in all likelihood, even older than that. You can find usenet slop from 20-30 years ago about the petro-euro and the "tehran oil bourse". Here's an old site that is/was daily panics about the fall of the dollar, from 15-25 years ago. http://www.engdahl.oilgeopolitics.net/

Nobody is panicking. BRICS has gotten steadily larger and is gaining as an alternative banking system. This is competition. This just requires more thoughtful strategies.

> This just requires more thoughtful strategies.

US not in a good place then?


I would say it's a mystery. The US has corporations that are better funded than many nations. These corporations are also rationally managed and operate globally. As a patriot I hope that the US starts to utilize rational thought.

The steady building up of alternatives will happen until one day the reserve currency status will change hands all of a sudden.

I think the Fed could stem the whole thing by just issuing a stable coin itself pegged to the dollar and re-assert itself as the dominant currency/arbiter... but who knows. Maybe then it'd have insight into every transaction and be able to stem things with even more power than it can now.

Nobody stays king forever. Maybe it's time the US is forced to balance its books and stop riding on cheap credit. Losing the power of the reserve currency and the power that that gives to SWIFT and things will take a lot of soft power away from the US. Without allies the US couldn't stop a united China, Russia, insert-other-would-be-ally-of-theirs in a world conflict.

As another commenter said there's no leadership at teh top just chaos. People, countries, banks don't invest in chaos.


> steady building up of alternatives will happen until one day the reserve currency status will change hands all of a sudden

This is not how it has ever happened. Instead, we’ll see a gradual erosion as the world switches to multi-polarity and spheres of influence. (And, with decreasing international trade, every country’s reserve mix will vary.)


I agree that the next wave may not be dominated by a single currency. I also think that is a superior system. I think the BRICS system is based on honoring multiple currencies rather than using a single currency for settlement.

> that is a superior system

It’s more robust and less efficient. Transaction costs—and opportunities for middlemen—will increase. But the chances that your country’s economy is entirely shut down on the whim of one man in Washington is reduced.

> the BRICS system is based on honoring multiple currencies

The BRICS system is nonsense, as evidenced by basically nobody using it beyond a totem amount. Both the PBoC and RBI have superior settlement systems they could open up if they wanted to. Neither does because neither wants an unrestricted capital account.


I agree that it has been unused but disagree that it will always go unused. I think that China is using the US current global antagonism to encourage others to participate.

https://www.gisreportsonline.com/r/brics-payment-system/


> disagree that it will always go unused. I think that China is using the US current global antagonism to encourage others to participate

China is in a border dispute with another founding member of the BRICS. Another is in the Western Hemisphere and will become a proxy-financial frontline.

There will be yuan, Euro and dollar payment rails. (If the EU had failed to unify, they’d be getting divided up between Washington and Moscow again.)


I think the Fed is under powered without consistent planning from our executive office. Erratic behavior does not instill confidence for people trying to rationally plan.

I also think the US used the banking system to punish enough nations that an alternative became viable.




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